By Howard Fischer
Mail | X: @azcapmedia

PHOENIX — State lawmakers, for the first time ever, want to allow religious chaplains to counsel students on public school campuses.

Rep. Matt Gress said the legislation that gained preliminary House approval on Thursday is strictly voluntary. The Phoenix Republican said it would be up to districts to decide whether to participate.

He also said parents would have to grant permission and could choose among any who have offered to make themselves available.

To get on an approved list, a person would have to be a chaplain from a “local religious group,” meaning one that meets at least once a month at a location in which the school district is located. So any religion that doesn’t have a church, synagogue, mosque or meeting hall within that district — and there are more than 200 districts throughout the state — could not offer up someone to counsel students.

That, however, is not all.

Senate Bill 1269 further defines what is a religious group whose chaplains would be considered eligible. That specifically includes only those religions that have a hierarchy of teachers, clergy, sages or priests, regularly engages in a ceremony, ritual or protocol, and “acknowledges the existence of and worships one or more supernatural entities that possess power over the natural world.”

And, as Phoenix Democratic Rep. Stephanie Simacek pointed out, that locks out someone who is an atheist from providing in-school counseling, even if that is the preference of the parents.

But proponents made no secret this is all about religion.

“It’s almost as if ‘God’ is being treated like a four-letter word,” Gress told colleagues in pushing the measure. “We are a religious people and we presuppose a supernatural being.”

Rep. Justin Olson, discussing the measure in the House Education Committee, had his own take.

“We have become a secular society and that is damaging to our society,” said the Mesa Republican. “We need to have opportunities for people to look to a higher power.”

Rep. David Marshall said he was not convinced by arguments by foes that it takes education and training for someone to become a social worker or counselor and qualify them to be providing guidance and advice.

“Are there some good psychologists?” asked the Snowflake Republican.

“I’m sure there are,” he continued. “But I think Jesus is a lot better than any psychologist.”

Thursday’s House action is not the last word. The measure still needs a roll-call vote. It then has to go back to the Senate which had approved the original proposal by Sen. Wendy Rogers, R-Flagstaff, which does not have some of the same language.

If it becomes law, look for legal challenges to school districts that agree to participate.

Gaelle Esposito said the measure runs afoul of First Amendment prohibitions against schools from sponsoring religious activities. This, she said, falls into that category.

“It explicitly authorizes chaplains to be able to ‘conduct religious exercise,’” Esposito said. Nor did she believe all of this can be excused simply because a parent gives consent, any more than a parent agreeing to allow a child to be taught creationism in a public school would make that activity legal.

Dianne Post, legal director of the Secular Coalition for Arizona, said the fact there are some 2,700 different religions in the United States means there is no way adherents to each of them can get their choice of a counselor.

But not everyone believes there is a legal issue.

Rep. Lisa Fink pointed out the concept of a separation between church and state is nowhere in the Constitution.

Instead, the Glendale Republican said, it was in a letter that Thomas Jefferson wrote to the Danbury Baptists where he used the phrase “a wall of separation between church and state.” And what he was targeting, she said, was the concept that those who did not belong to a specific — and state-sanctioned — church could not be barred from participating in public discussions.

Fink supported the measure, saying it has “plenty of guardrails,” including the fact participation is voluntary.

But Rep. Nancy Gutierrez called the plan “outrageous.”

“Public schools are not places for religious teaching,” said the Tucson Democrat.

“They are places for math and science and reading,” she continued. “We have no need for chaplains in our public schools.”

Gutierrez, who is a teacher, also noted this comes amid perennial claims by some lawmakers that educators are “indoctrinating” students.

“If we want to talk about indoctrination going on in our public schools, this would be it,” she said of the legislation.

Rep. Lupe Diaz, who is a pastor, said what’s not being discussed are the rights of students and their parents. And he said having chaplains available actually would help youngsters deal with issues.

“Most people in your community, even with students, they will approach a religious leader or a chaplain, a pastor, rabbi and whoever it is before they consider going to a counselor or a psychologist,” said the Benson Republican. Nor does Diaz see a danger, even if chaplains lack professional training.

“A well-trained chaplain will know that they can take a person only so far, and then they will refer them,” he said. “And I think that that’s really, really critical to be able to have someone they can go to, that they feel safe, before the are referred somewhere else or recommended to be referred somewhere else.”

Gress insisted there would be no proselytizing for any specific religion. But he acknowledged what’s in the legislation goes beyond mere advice or counseling on a specific course of action.

“I think that perhaps there is a spiritual deficit that needs to be addressed,” Gress said.