By Howard Fischer
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PHOENIX – Phoenix Sen. Steve Kaiser won approval for his proposal to cut the time Arizonans can collect jobless benefits but not before being challenged by Democrats who questioned the basis for the change.

The Senate this week gave preliminary approval to setting the maximum length of payments for those looking for work at no more than 12 weeks at any time the state's seasonally adjusted jobless rate has been 5% or less for the prior quarter.

That compares with the current law which allows up to 24 weeks when the unemployment rate is that low.

That also would apply now with the jobless rate now in the 4% range.

Kaiser said he sees the current level of benefits as unnecessary.

"If there are plentiful jobs out there, the unemployment insurance benefit timelines should be shorter,'' he told colleagues during floor debate on Wednesday.

Kaiser pointed out that Arizona has a voter-imposed $13.85-an-hour minimum wage, which over a 40-hour week translates out to more than unemployment benefits.

The idea drew questions from Sen. Mitzi Epstein, D-Tempe. She asked who benefits from the change.

"Getting a job benefits the individual and their family,'' Kaiser responded.

Epstein said: "That's a new piece of information to me that yanking benefits away from somebody helps them to get a job faster.'' she said, adding that still did not answer her question of who is promoting the idea.

Kaiser said he could not recall the name of the group.

The measure was pushed in the Senate Government Committee by Brian Sikma, a lobbyist for the Foundation for Government Accountability, which lists its purpose as advancing policies to move individuals from welfare to work.

He testified that states that set up an indexed jobless benefit system - with the length of benefits linked to unemployment - get people back to work faster.

Epstein said she remains unconvinced.

"Unemployment insurance is a bridge for the individual, and it's important for stability in the economy,'' she said, asking Kaiser whether he had worked with any economists to assess the global effects of such a change.

"I did not work with any economists,'' he said.

"However, it's pretty basic to understand that if you have a job, even a  minimum wage job, that you're going to be earning more than the unemployment insurance benefits,'' Kaiser said.

"So, you'll actually be doing better for yourself and your family having even a minimum wage job versus what the state will provide.''

Kaiser said there's another indirect benefit to encouraging people to take any job that's available.

"When you have a job, that's the best way to find the next job,'' he said.

"In theory, yes,'' said Sen. Brian Fernandez, D-Yuma.

"But the problem is the job doesn't just magically appear,'' he said. And Fernandez said that a lot is involved in applying for jobs in the high-tech industry, including a battery of interviews and tests.

"It's not like you just drop an application off someplace and they call you up and say, 'Congratulations, we really like you, you're hired,''' he said.

Kaiser, however, said many of the minimum wage jobs out there have enough flexibility in their schedules to permit people seeking other work to take time off as needed.

A final Senate vote will send the measure to the House.